Why Tom Coughlin is my #1 coach on the ballot

[readjack]

I don't know that Holmgren is helped by his Seattle tenure. Yeah, he made one SB (a loss) but he was there for 10 years. Plus he had a great situation in GB, arguably should have made more SBs but he quit on that team for more power in Seattle. By all reports he was nothing special in the front office too. I think that tends to hurt his candidacy.

To each their own. I'm the exact opposite on his time in Seattle. The Seahawks missed the playoffs for 10 straight seasons before Holmgren arrived. They won their division his first year (admittedly a weak champ at 9-7), missed the playoffs for three years (though with a 9-7 season) and then went to the playoffs five straight seasons, including four straight division titles and the Super Bowl appearance.

All of the best players on the '05 Seahawks with the exception of Walter Jones — and obviously that's a huge exception — arrived under Holmgren, including Hutchinson, Alexander, Hasselbeck, Tatupu, Wistrom, Tobeck, Trufant, Boulware and their entire receiving corps. They didn't all arrive when he was GM, but it's fair to say that he built that team as much if not more than Dungy's Bucs or Coughlin's Jaguars.

The problem is that Holmgren is compared to his own history with the Packers. With Ron Wolf as GB, the Packers had an even more dismal recent history than the Seahawks, and turned it all around to a SB Championship and a return appearance the following year.

While Holmgren (at the time) was the most successful Seahawks coach, he wasn't as successful as he was with the Packers. Ron Wolf, who didn't leave for another job, is in the HOF and Holmgren isn't. A lot of that is narrative, even though Holmgren had longer after the SB appearances than Wolf did, he left, had the hubris to think he could do both jobs, eventually lost the GM job, and didn't win a SB the way he did with the Packers. It honestly probably hurts his chances, the Packers aren't going to boost him as much as other players associated with the team; it's why Wolf and Leroy Butler got in and Holmgren is still waiting.

I'm sure it's the same issue with Buddy Parker. Left a great situation with the Lions (they in fact won the year he left.) While his tenure with the Steelers was successful by the then standards of that franchise, he never even made the playoffs with the team. So the controversy of the departure is enough to stall the progress to the HOF.

Sure. My point is that the Seahawks are his 2nd team, and his 2nd team went to a Super Bowl. So if you do first team / second team with the champs on the list:

SHANAHAN: Broncos, 2x champs — Raiders/Washington, 6 years, 1 postseason
COUGHLIN: Giants, 2x champs — Jaguars, 8 years, .531 winning percentage (same as on NYG), 4x playoffs, 2x AFCCG
SEIFERT: 49ers, 2x champs — Panthers, 3 years, .333 winning percentage
HOLMGREN: Packers, 1x champ, 2x SB — Seahawks, 10 years, .538 winning percentage, 6x playoffs, 1x SB

[saturdaysarebetter]

Thanks for the (100%) compliment!

The Coughlin endorsement is still taking over me (still blinking). It's just a simple me thinking (JMO) that Parker & Arnsparger are even better candidates. That's all.

But DO get Coughlin in there! Make it three! I don't disrespect Eli. But he getting in could only be for the obvious reasons and the obvious reasons only - he was the QB in two SB wins against Belichick/Brady, he played in a big market franchise, he's a...Manning! Sadly, and again no disrespect, but that's IT (HOVG? zero argument).

A Gene Tunney (beat Dempsey twice) Eli is but his HC even more-so! If Gene is in the World Boxing Hall of Fame, then WHY NOT Coughlin in Canton?? And he shouldn't have to wait so many decades later as post-humous Gene did (he not getting in until 1980). No, get Coughlin in now along with Parker & Arnsparger!

Look at his career outside of the two Super Bowl wins, and there is not a lot of impressive characteristics. He was never an all-pro, never among the best of his era. The only category he led the league in was interceptions (three times; '07, '10, '13). His career record as a starter was .500. Other than his name and family association and the two SB seasons, why should he be inducted?

Because the only player other than Eli to have two Super Bowl MVPs and have more passing yards, touchdowns and completions is Tom Brady. Eli retired as seventh all-time in passing yards, touchdowns and completions. Seventh with two SB MVPs.

[Brian wolf]

Its true that Holmgren and Coughlin had better success with multiple teams than Shanahan and Seifert, but despite getting hot at the end of the 2007, 2011 seasons, I still considered the Giants more a fluke champion than the 1997-1998 Broncos back-to-back winner.

Shanahan simply couldnt replace John Elway, though he tried with Plummer before getting excited with Cutler, who played better for him than anyone else. It still surprised me that Shanahan was fired and replaced but the expectations were high in Denver after making the AFC Championship game in 2005/06.
Did Shanahan replace Plummer too soon? Did Bowlen feel he had to get Josh McDaniels before anyone else? Could Shanny had won more in Washington without Robert Griffin getting hurt?

What hurts Coughlin was going 19-29 his final three years in NY. Like Manning, they both regressed with other players not meeting expectations or staying healthy. Beckham helped revive Manning somewhat, but once Peyton Hillis had injuries on offense and Tuck and Kiwanuka had injuries on defense, the team just couldnt recover.

[saturdaysarebetter]

Arnsparger is seen by enough as the best DC of all-time. Lebeau is already in, so why not Bill?

There's debate as to whether Dungy and Cowher should even be in the Hall (their inductions opening that 'can of worms'). IMO, each have the edge over Holmgren as a HC, but that extra SB-berth of Holmgren's (making it 3, as many as both combined - Dungy 1, Cowher 2) at least makes a legit case of Holmgren already being in as well.

If Jimmy Johnson is in...yes, Buddy Parker.


As for the topic, OP itself...

The coaching ballot this year is going to be fascinating, with three head coaches with two rings apiece (Coughlin, Shanahan, Seifert) and one who has only one but also brought two franchises to a Super Bowl, with three total appearances (Holmgren). I would pick Clark Shaughnessy as a contributor but he feels off here. Full list: https://www.profootballhof.com/news/202 ... s-of-2025/

In any case, the discussion, right or not, about whether Eli Manning is a 1st ballot HOFer leads me to view Tom Coughlin as the clear cut #1 coaching candidate for the class of 2025. Unlike Shanahan and Seifert, Coughlin had incredible success with a second franchise, albeit his first, in Jacksonville. A head coach's impact is how his team performs, and Coughlin has two of the biggest upsets in NFL history: Jaguars-Broncos 1996 and Super Bowl XLII, both of which had Coughlin's teams as 12.5-point underdogs.

And unlike Shanahan, Seifert and Holmgren, Coughlin's Super Bowl champs were very light on individual talent. Some ways of thinking of it:

Players who would make Canton without a ring: Strahan
MVP ever: none
OPOY ever: none
DPOY ever: Strahan 2001
Pro Bowl in title season: Umenyiora '07, Manning '11, Pierre-Paul '11
1st team AP All Pro in title season: none
1st team AP All Pro ever: Strahan 4x, Umenyiora '05, Snee '08, Tuck '08, Pierre-Paul '11

Insane talent difference compared to Elway/TD/Sharpe/Atwater/Neil, Favre/Reggie/Butler, Montana/Young/Rice/Craig/Watters/Deion, etc.

Thoughts? Your choice?

That's a very solid endorsing point! Had the Giants successfully defended in 2008 as they "should" have (12-4 top-seed this time instead of 10-6 WC, beat Steelers on the road, etc), this wouldn't even be a topic because he'd already be in. 14-2 best-record-in-the-league Jags not making the SB in '99? I don't see that as an underachievement. 13-3 Titans were the deserving AFC representative, Music City Miracle or not. And Rams were the best.

Lebeau is in as a player. A three-time Pro Bowler, he had 62 interceptions as a cornerback for the Lions. He was a very good DC without question.

[saturdaysarebetter]

Coughlin's underrated, IMO. Had the Jaguars in the AFC Championship in their second year ever, then later won the SB 2x with the Giants. He's a good HOF choice. It would be nice to see him get in the same year as Eli, assuming Eli gets in this year.

My top pick is Dan Reeves. Player/coach in 2 SB, OC of SB Cowboys, won 3 out of 4 AFC Championships, then took the Falcons to the SB with a big upset in the NFC Championship. I know he had Elway but still - there's all this talk about that and then people complain that the Broncos supposedly weren't very good. So which is it to his critics? And it would be difficult to find someone that won the SB as a player/coach and as an OC and then went to the SB 4x as a HC. While I belive Coughlin is underrated, the uniqueness of Reeves' accomplishments is flat-out overlooked, IMHO.

I would assume that there are categories in which individuals are inducted into the Pro Football HOF, player, coach, contributors, etc. With Reeves not being good enough to be inducted as a player or coach, would a new category need to be created? Lifetime contribution? Lifetime dedication? Is there a single-word that encapsulates Reeves' career for induction into Canton?