Professional Football Researchers Association Forum

I made a poll on a retro NFL Facebook page asking people who is the best NFL coach who did not win a championship (Pre-or post Super Bowl) in their career.

The choices I gave them are:

Bud Grant
Marv Levy
Dan Reeves
Marty Schottenheimer
George Allen
Chuck Knox
Don Coryell
Someone else

For the record, their responses are:

Grant (27%)
Levy (39%)
Reeves (5%)
Schottenheimer (15%)
Allen (2%)
Knox (3%)
Coryell (4%)
Someone else (1%)

Out of curiosity, how would you all answer that question, and how would you rank the seven coaches I listed?

Technically, Bud Grant did win an NFL Championship.
The first four Super Bowls (pre-merger) were world championship games between the champions of the NFL and AFL.
They were even called the AFL-NFL World Championship Game.
Grant's Vikings were the 1969 NFL Champions.

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 1:38 am Technically, Bud Grant did win an NFL Championship.
The first four Super Bowls (pre-merger) were world championship games between the champions of the NFL and AFL.
They were even called the AFL-NFL World Championship Game.
Grant's Vikings were the 1969 NFL Champions.

If we are being technical, yes.

But in my opinion the NFL championship is not the championship of the season once the Super Bowl starts.

Chuck Knox ... Ted Marchibroda might have been the best coach with a losing record.

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 4:55 am

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 1:38 am Technically, Bud Grant did win an NFL Championship.
The first four Super Bowls (pre-merger) were world championship games between the champions of the NFL and AFL.
They were even called the AFL-NFL World Championship Game.
Grant's Vikings were the 1969 NFL Champions.

If we are being technical, yes.

But in my opinion the NFL championship is not the championship of the season once the Super Bowl starts.

The best way to phrase it is "never to win a world championship." Though I'd personally go with someone who never even made the Super Bowl: Marty Schottenheimer.

Crazy Packers Fan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 12:07 am

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 4:55 am

JuggernautJ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 1:38 am Technically, Bud Grant did win an NFL Championship.
The first four Super Bowls (pre-merger) were world championship games between the champions of the NFL and AFL.
They were even called the AFL-NFL World Championship Game.
Grant's Vikings were the 1969 NFL Champions.

If we are being technical, yes.

But in my opinion the NFL championship is not the championship of the season once the Super Bowl starts.

The best way to phrase it is "never to win a world championship." Though I'd personally go with someone who never even made the Super Bowl: Marty Schottenheimer.

Interesting, why Schottenheimer first of those seven?

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 4:09 am

Crazy Packers Fan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 12:07 am

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Thu Dec 04, 2025 4:55 am

If we are being technical, yes.

But in my opinion the NFL championship is not the championship of the season once the Super Bowl starts.

The best way to phrase it is "never to win a world championship." Though I'd personally go with someone who never even made the Super Bowl: Marty Schottenheimer.

Interesting, why Schottenheimer first of those seven?

Schottenheimer had a ton of regular-season success and just some bad luck in the playoffs. His 1986 and 1987 Browns lost in excruciating fashion, while his 2006 team should have won the Super Bowl but lost in bizarre fashion to the Patriots. The 1995 Chiefs lost on Lin Elliott's terrible game, and the 1997 team was one play away too. Just so much bad luck and could have easily been a multi-Super Bowl champion.

Crazy Packers Fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 07, 2025 1:37 pm

SeahawkFever wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 4:09 am

Crazy Packers Fan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 05, 2025 12:07 am
The best way to phrase it is "never to win a world championship." Though I'd personally go with someone who never even made the Super Bowl: Marty Schottenheimer.

Interesting, why Schottenheimer first of those seven?

Schottenheimer had a ton of regular-season success and just some bad luck in the playoffs. His 1986 and 1987 Browns lost in excruciating fashion, while his 2006 team should have won the Super Bowl but lost in bizarre fashion to the Patriots. The 1995 Chiefs lost on Lin Elliott's terrible game, and the 1997 team was one play away too. Just so much bad luck and could have easily been a multi-Super Bowl champion.

I agree that Marty was simply a victim of horrible luck. He was a fantastic coach and leader of men who should have had multiple Super Bowl appearances. He should absolutely be voted into the HOF.

I agree on Marty, but Knox also had bad luck. The Rams might have been the only team to really challenge the Steelers without a top QB but stumbled against Minn on just a few plays in the 74 NFC Championship game. They had a top team in 73, but Hadl wasnt the same at the end of the season as they lost to the Cowboys, being unable to defend against rookie Drew Pearson.
They also came back against the Vikings in the 76 Championship game but a late interception ended those hopes.

Later with the Bills, Knox had the Chargers on the ropes in the 1980 divisional, but Fouts beat them in the last minutes of the game. In 1981, they lost a competitive game against the Bengals who easily beat the Chargers in the Freezer Bowl.

He also lost with the Seahawks against the Bengals in 1988. Dave Krieg led a comeback that fell short. They had been down 21-0.

What hurts him to a degree, were the blowout losses to Dallas in 1975, where Staubach had one of his best games against a great defense and the 1983 AFC Championship against the Raiders, where the Seahawks were just flat after upsetting the Dolphins. They had beaten the Raiders twice that season but Dave Krieg was dreadful in the Colliseum.

Voters can keep him out of the HOF but he is deserving. The list of QBs who started in championship games for Chuck Knox

1974 -- James Harris
1975 -- A young Ron Jaworski ... should he have stuck with him?
1976 -- Pat Haden
1983 -- Dave Krieg

He also had aging QBs in Hadl and Ferguson.

Chuck Knox is also in my personal HOF. He was a winner.